The Best of “Rule Breaker Investing” 2024

From timely and timeless optimism, to risk-rating frameworks, to cutting-edge, AI-driven Q&A, plus a first-ever Market Cap Game Show World Championship, this Rule Breaker Investing extravaganza highlights 10 remarkable episodes from the podcast’s 2024.

Here’s to another year of smarter, happier, and richer!

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool’s free podcasts, check out our podcast center. To get started investing, check out our beginner’s guide to investing in stocks. A full transcript follows the video.

This video was recorded on Dec. 11, 2024.

David Gardner: This year has been one for the ages, frequently contrary to expectations, sometimes to all expectations, full of innovations that have changed the nature of human thought and creativity, ChatGBT anyone, challenges to our assumptions, challenges for all of us at points worthy of an X prize, there were truly artful moments, and others were risky. But if we were paying attention, we got better at calculating risks.

We treasured optimism and those who could bring it in 2024. Yes, despite election obsession, nonpartisan Fools like me want to point out through occasional turmoil, the dividend still got paid every quarter. We were all reminded once again, that it’s the company that you keep that probably best explains where you’re going, your future. These are thoughts both timely and timeless. What a year. I’m only just talking about this podcast. Movies have their Oscars, television has its Emmys. Music has its Grammys and Broadway, it’s Tony’s. I’m not really sure what podcasts have. But the one podcast I know best anyway, this podcast has its Besties. You deserve it, we deserve it. The stars are back, looking at this year’s work together, looking ahead to 2025, all tied up in a bow for you. Is this actually the best podcast every year? The Besties of 2024, only on this week’s Rule Breaker Investing.

[MUSIC]

It’s the Rule Breaker Investing podcast with Motley Fool co-founder David Gardner.

David Gardner: Welcome back to this possibly the most special edition of Rule Breaker Investing this year. Cameos from many of my best guests this year, reflecting back and looking forward. It’s our Besties of 2024. I’ve identified 10 of my favorite podcasts that we brought you this year. These are not ordered. These are not ranked in any way, shape, or form. But looking back and thinking through the roster of the 50 podcasts we’ve done so far in 50 weeks this year, I thought, what are 10 that stand out to me? Probably to you. Why not talk briefly about them and when possible, have some voices returned to share some reflections, both about the year that was and the year that will be? Now, again, these are not ranked.

Of the 40 podcasts that are not included here, I wouldn’t want anybody to think that I didn’t think they were really great, too. I love all my children. But you can only fit so much in a Besties and just like the Oscars and Emmys and Grammys and Tony’s, in the end, you have to pick only one or here, only 10. Of course, a big reason for doing the Besties every year is to encourage you if you didn’t hear any of these 10 podcasts. In fact, to go back and listen, I think you’ll really be educated, amused, and enriched.

Now, before I get started, I want to mention next week’s podcast, and that’s the Market Cap Game Show. Emily Flippen and longtime Fool producer Mac Greer will be here competing in America’s 27th favorite game show. I don’t think we’re in the top 25 anyway, but for investors, I hope we’re number 1. Get the wood in the fireplace, invite the in laws over time for a warm cider, traditional or hard and light it up with us next week with the Market Cap Game Show, Holiday Edition to help you close out the year. That’s the second last podcast of this year, but let me, in particular, also mention our last podcast of the year, which is, of course, your mailbag.

The reason I’m underlining that is because we’re recording both of those podcasts that I just mentioned, early next week. That way, Dez and I can enjoy our holidays, and you can, too, knowing that we’re bringing you awesome podcasts to close the year. But we’re doing them ahead of time, so we have extra time with family and friends. Thus, if you’d like to be featured on the year end mailbag, you need to write to us right away. We’re recording that next week. We’ll need to hear from you now or right after finishing this week’s podcast or over the weekend. Anyway, did I get it right with my Besties picks? Did I overlook a gem? Did one of my all star guests improve your life this year? Do you have a story for us? The email address is [email protected], and, of course, you can also tweet us at RBI podcast.

To summarize, next week the Market Cap Game Show, the week after the year end mailbag. But we need to hear from you right away if you’d like to be considered for the mailbag. Now, ladies and gentlemen and Fools everywhere, the red carpet has been rolled out, you are invited. We welcome you to this year’s Rule Breaker investing podcast Besties complete with our own theme music. Chosen specially by my producer, Dez Jones. Dez, thank you for your great first year with this podcast. I know the process for selecting the theme music for our Besties can be onerous, sometimes multi layered. One of the bigger challenges in the world of entertainment, if I may, the Besties theme music each year. Dez, I’m wondering how you came up with this, the process what did we end up with?

Desiree Jones: We here to look at the harmonies. I’m thinking about the different instruments, a lot of different families of instruments. We had to break it down and really build it back up. It was definitely a process.

David Gardner: Dez, you’re somebody who is, I think you’re a professional caliber performer on the viola. Is there a viola included in this year’s Besties music?

Desiree Jones: Not this time around, but I can’t make any promises on the next time, so time will tell.

David Gardner: We’ll both come clean because this year’s Best’s music was actually provided by longtime listener Erick DeVore. Those who were listening in August of Investing in the Fools I sing or remember, Erick, a professional composer who’s done music for film, TV, and video games and is a longtime Rule Breaker listener, provided us a 10.5 second clip, which Dez I think you and I will be rocking throughout these Besties. Shout out ahead of time to Erick DeVore. That’s Erick with a K at Erick DeVore on Twitter, X. Erick, thank you for being a longtime Fool and yeah, for providing free music for us for the Besties this year.

Bestie number 1, this year goes to optimism with Bill Burke, which debuted on April 3rd, 2024. Now, what made that episode stand out, was how blended real world experience with inspiring research backed perspectives. Bill’s explanation of optimism versus hope, using his beloved Detroit Lions who’ve never made a Super Bowl. Was not only amusing, but also showed a nuanced understanding of realism in optimism. He went a step further describing how our brains are plastic and malleable, like working out at a gym. We can train our minds toward positivity, as neuroscientist Richard Davidson has shown, it’s this combination of personal anecdote, science, and humor that made the conversation both timeless and timely. Add to that, Bill’s vivid portrayal of immigrant optimism, exemplified by a chance encounter with a Korean Uber driver in New York.

The episode became a lesson in perspective. Just as his years at the Weather Channel taught him that, no one cheers for forecasters when they get it right, only when they’re wrong, Bill reminds us that people often focus on the negative. Yet by staying alert to small acts of kindness in the streets of Manhattan, we can rediscover our shared humanity and realize how often our weather forecasts, our fellow citizens, and, indeed, our world do get things right. This uplifting message couldn’t be more relevant in a world anxious for reasons to believe again. The man himself is back to join with you and me here at the end of 2024. Bill Burke, thank you for that podcast we did back in April and welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing.

Bill Burke: It is so great to be back, and I love that trip down memory lane. I’d forgotten some of those things. I also appreciate the gift of being able to mention the Detroit Lions. Now, back in April, would I know they’d be 12 and one right there, my bio on our website says he’s a lifelong optimist (he has to be. He’s a Detroit Lions fan.) [laughs] At some point, I might have to change it. This is crazy.

David Gardner: I think you’re right. Maybe that point is now, Bill. This would not be the first time that a galvanic moment occurred on a Besties podcast where somebody made a commitment to change the course of the future.

Bill Burke: This is it. I owe it to you. Who knew?

David Gardner: I have two questions [laughs] for you, Bill Burke. One’s I’ll be asking my talented guests throughout this hour. Any further reflections since on that podcast we did together or on optimism in the world at large?

Bill Burke: Sure. In fact, you just hit on it when you said the Lions because we also talked about the Tigers. In real time, in that interview, you helped me crystallize my thinking about hope versus optimism. The analogy we used was the example was if the Tigers are down by nine runs in the ninth inning with two outs, I’m not very optimistic, but I still have hope. If the Lions are down by nine points with two seconds left, neither am I optimistic [laughs] nor do I have any hope. It’s physically impossible. That has really stuck with me and you and I worked it through. It was, like, a therapy session. It was great. It’s really helpful way to think about it. It also helped me understand part of the romance of baseball. There’s always that hope. As long as there’s an out left, it’s a timeless game without a clock, except a pitch clock. That really stuck with me, which was something.

David Gardner: That sticks with me, too. Thank you for bringing that back because I think a lot of us, listening to us right now, appreciate sports. We often make sports analogies on Rule Breaker Investing. I’m not saying you have to love sports to listen to this podcast, but it’s extra fun if you do. Even when I have a friend, we’re just talking about optimism, there we end up on sports, and that analogy is so perfect, Bill, because you were right. That was your contribution on that April 3rd podcast.

I hadn’t really thought about that before, even though I’ve watched any number of baseball [laughs] and football games of course of my 58 years. But it’s true that baseball is such a sport full of hope, if not optimism, because you can always hope with one more out spared, you can always hope we can come back and so appreciate that point. Bill, what’s a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction that you have for the year 2025?

Bill Burke: I’m going to go with a wish that might be an interesting prediction [laughs] How about that? I have a feeling that 2025 will be the first year in many that we actually cut back on our use of social media and news consumption. I’ll tell you why I think that a few reasons. I think for younger people, I think Jonathan Hight has created a legitimate or has contributed at least, mightily to a legitimate movement to really think about social media, smartphones and our kids. We’re seeing momentum behind that. I have to say, that’s when I’ve actually studied a fair amount both anecdotally and reading these books, and I think he’s really onto something. I also believe that on the other side of this election.

I know I’ve talked to enough people, so this is all anecdotal, but I think people have said, I’m exhausted. I can’t do this anymore, I can’t keep this up, I can’t study everything that comes out of candidate X’s mouth or candidate Y’s, I can’t do it. I have to take a break. I’ve got to get my sanity back and my hopeful prediction. Because I think this would be a good thing for all of us, I actually think our consumption is going to drop next year, and that is my bold prediction for 2025, and it is an optimistic one because I think it would be a good thing for all of us.

David Gardner: Coming from you, that means a lot, and I agree. It is bold and it’ll be interesting. I don’t know if you’re actually scoring that, if you have a single metric in mind that you’ll be eyeing.

Bill Burke: I don’t. I don’t know where I can measure. I don’t know who forecasts that or who publicizes that.

David Gardner: Let’s just go with the performance of Meta Platform stock. I don’t know [laughs] But we want that to go up, even though people are going to be using it later.

Bill Burke: Let’s keeping stocks out of this. I want metrics of usage.

David Gardner: You’re right. You can think about that, and that’s your domain. We don’t need to have an answer for that now. I really appreciate that thought, though, and I agree on the studies and the work being done, especially about cutting smartphones out of schools and school use, which is starting to take root in some states or at least some jurisdictions and that’s really interesting as well. Anyway, Bill Burke, what a delight it was to spend this time together here at the end of 2024, and I look forward to checking back. Shall we? Sometime in 2025?

Bill Burke: I would love that, David. It’s always a great pleasure.

David Gardner: Fool on, my friend.

Bill Burke: Thank you.

David Gardner: Bestie number 2 goes to Calculating risk Foolishly, volume number 3, Kinsale versus Chewy. It appeared on January 24th, much earlier this year. The podcast had two analysts join me, we went through my 25 point Risk framework, a framework that teaches Rule Breaker Investors to do something most other investors and even professional analysts rarely do. That is put a risk rating on a stock. An actual number backed by a framework like seven or 13, instead of just saying a stock is one of my least favorite phrases, medium risk, whatever that means. Calculating risk is something we’ve done on this show only two other times in the past, first shared in 2016. Then once again in 2021. It’s always a pleasure to invite in two Motley Fool analysts to help take us through the 25 point risk rating framework. In this case, it was Motley Fool Chief Investment Officer Andy Cross, looking at Kinsel and Motley Fool analyst and advisor Emily Flippin looking at Chewy. In fact, spoiler alert, we’re going to hear from Andy a little bit later this show, and we’re going to hear from Emily next week on the Market Cap Game Show. But there were three great things about this episode. I think the first is a tangible method.

Again, instead of vague words like medium risk, we got a clear numerical risk rating. We took something fuzzy and made it real and applied it to Chewy, a very popular stock among Motley Fool members, and Kinsel, a very interesting stock among Motley Fool members, one well like, just not as much of a consumer brand name. The second thing I think that was great about this episode was two different companies, but the same system. We tackled both Kinsel and Chewy, but we used the same risk framework and applied them to two wildly different stocks.

The third and final thing I want to underline, it was a listener empowering week January 24th, because by the end, everyone listening knew how to rate risk themselves and why that matters. We’re turning theory into the practical everyday investing skill of thinking about and estimating risk, something that matters to all of us. I do want before we move on, define briefly how I think about risk. Risk for me can mean many things, but when we talk about the stock market, individual stocks, risk is the chances of you losing a substantial portion of your original investment over a meaningful amount of time. A lot of people tend to think about risk as volatility, the Beta, so called, of a stock and its movements. I’ve always disagreed. I think the risk we’re trying to avoid is that we would lose a lot of our money holding for a long period of time.

That’s really deadening to a portfolio’s performance. That’s what risk is, and that’s what we’re rating with our calculating risk volume 3 framework. This one goes home a winner, and that’s why it’s Bestie number 2.

Bestie number 3 happened in mid September of this year, when Rand Stagen joined me to discuss long term leadership, business, and life. Founder of Stagin Leadership Academy, Rand Stagen shows us that meaningful transformation in business, investing and life requires patient, continuous effort far beyond quick fixes, and by treating leadership growth like a long term investment. Rand’s approach parallels successful stock investing. What we talk about all the time on this podcast, compounding returns built up over decades, rather than chasing short term wins. What wins in investing also wins in business. Rand urges leaders to integrate purpose with profit, see compassion and authenticity, not as soft extras. But as strategic essentials that elevate both performance and humanity.

David Gardner: In fact, one of my favorite exchanges with Rand was when he was talking about how people want a quick fix, business leaders will approach him hoping he’ll work on a two-day program where he and his team come in at their offsite and provide leadership advice that will build trust. Rand, what I remember you saying is seriously? Do that in two days. Welcome back to Rand Stagen. Rand, congratulations on your Bestie.

Rand Stagen: Well, I was smiling as you were telling that last piece of the story and before we begin, I want to extend my gratitude for being included in this prestigious award. I thought that during the summer when I brought the Stagen faculty together for our annual team retreat in Dallas, and we had a very serious competition as an organization. It was a 40 yard dash. I participated. I was so proud to win my age group, even though I was the only one in the above 50 age group. I thought, David, that was going to be the highlight of 2024. But no, winning a Bestie will now go down for me as the highlight.

David Gardner: You’re inspiring me to think that we need to make this hardware at some point. I’m sorry it’s just virtual.

Rand Stagen: I thought I was going to get something in the middle. I’m very disappointed [LAUGHTER] Well, as long as the music for the 2024 besties outdoes the 2023 music, which was fabulous. I will be fine.

David Gardner: Owen, clearly, it has, and listeners, since you’re number three already will recognize that. I’m quite sure Rand, first of all, we had a great exchange just near the end of that podcast on September 11th of this year, where you shared some of your favorite quotes, which I thought were wonderful. I’m hoping maybe you’ll bring one or two, maybe just one, as you wish, back here. But I do have my two questions for you first. You ready?

Rand Stagen: I’m ready.

David Gardner: First question for you. Rand Stagen, what is a reflection you’ve since had, albeit about three months later about that podcast that we did together or more broadly about leadership? Take it anyway you want.

Rand Stagen: Well, you opened up this segment with the acknowledgment that those who are listening are obviously fans of compounding as I am and our organization is an advocate for. You talked about how the same principles of creating compounding returns and investing show up in business. What I want to bring in that we didn’t get a chance to talk about in September is that those same principles have the context in life, too. So it’s not just investing. It’s not just business. It’s also life.

When we think about the timelessness of these principles, we did not have a chance to go back into the truly long arc of time in our first conversation. If we had the time to do that, I guess, pun intended, we would have talked about the Greeks and we would have talked about how they had a recognition of the two types of time. Chronological time, that horizontal time that we live our lives by when we’re in that rat race in the scrambling nature of urgency versus the vertical version of time that they called chiros and they would refer to that as divine time. Some people might think about it as God’s time or even timeless time. So I realized we didn’t get a chance to go back far enough, a few thousand years, at least.

David Gardner: That is a wonderful reflection. A key theme of this year’s besties is the timely and the timeless and I didn’t even prompt you with that. In fact, it just started emerging naturally through this week’s show. You’ve beautifully spoken of something I hadn’t even prepared you to do. That’s called synchronicity, my friend.

Rand Stagen: That’s right. You and all of us. We’re in a jazz ensemble right now and it’s just emerging. I’m going to bring in a quote. It’s a short one and this is from John C Bogle that I guess most of your listeners will know is the founder of Vanguard and we lost him, I guess, several years ago. But his quote, which is a new one, which been added to my list since September, “Time is your friend, impulse is your enemy”.

David Gardner: “Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy”. What do you think he meant by impulse?

Rand Stagen: I think that he meant the impulsiveness of seeing stocks go down and becoming captured by fear and panic and actually pulling out of the market when times are tough and chasing when times are good and so is the pattern, buying high and selling low is what most investors ultimately create for themselves when they’re being driven by reactivity and impulsiveness. That’s my interpretation.

David Gardner: So well put, Rand, and there is synchronicity electrifying this week’s podcast now because we just did it. The third form of time, I’m making that up synchronicity. [laughs] I was just checking longtime listeners to this podcast will remember Jack Bogle on this podcast. In fact, let me look at it. It was this very week in December of 2016. Love Letter to Jack Bogle was the title of that week’s podcast. Jack got wind of it and we reached out to each other, and he came on for an interview the very next week. That was December 21st, 2016. Anybody can google it. Why We Invest plus Jack Bogle interviews. A love letter that got an answer something I’ll always appreciate.

Rand Stagen: Wow, what an amazing experience. As you were describing that idea of a love letter Mother Teresa was once quoted as saying, “I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing God sending a love letter to the world”. You think about so much of what we talked about in September and what we’re going to talk about right now is the idea that there is this dimension of time when we’re thinking about our investments, we’re thinking about our business, when we’re thinking about our family and the choices that we want to make that is beyond rational thinking. It requires a faith, it requires a trust. It requires in some ways, surrendering to win the paradox here. How do I surrender to my own, let’s go back to John Bogle, to my own impulsiveness, to my own reactivity, and how do I actually just relax into the long game?

David Gardner: Love it. Losing to win, again, a little bit related to surrendering to win one of my key themes through this podcast. So Rand, thank you so much. I do want to reflect that you and I have gotten to spend some time together over the years. I think, the stock market doubles every seven years on average. So that means if you’ve been together 14 years, which I think is about how long I’ve known you.

Rand Stagen: That’s about right.

David Gardner: At market pacing, 9-10% compounding, that means we’re four times better appreciating the other than we did 14 years ago. I’m looking forward to the next seven and the seven after that. Rand, it might even be between you and me. We might accelerate faster than 9-10%.

Rand Stagen: I would like to believe that we are beating average. Especially that we were together at the Conscious Capitalism conference and I woke up after the first night of being there and I thought to myself, why do I not feel rested? I was like, I was with David Gardner at one o’clock in the morning being overserved wine at the fire pit. I actually think if we spent too much time together, we might actually lower our return. I think we’re right in this optimal place in our relationship right now.

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David Gardner: Well said. I’m always late night team fire pit and I so appreciate you were there as well [laughs] Rand, let me ask you my parting question, which is thinking of the year ahead now, Rand Stagen, what is a wish, an interesting thought, or a prediction you have for 2025?

Rand Stagen: So I’m going to go with wish. So now that we are on the other side of the presidential election and we’re still here. The civilizations still here. The Internet’s working, everything’s working and there was such a there was such this catastrophic predictions, and our country is strong and has a strong foundation. My wish for our fellow Americans and really for those who are struggling with hyperpolarization all around the world, is that we can start to see some of the best in each other, especially those that are on opposite sides of issues, instead of only seeing and then amplifying the worst in each other. My hope is that our shared humanity can actually be a part of the calculus. I like disagreeing with people. We get better through discourse and I want to continue to embrace that, but I’d like us to humanize our opponents a little bit more than we have in the last four years.

David Gardner: That is a beautiful wish. I think wishing is the first step to making something come true. Rand, thank you for helping us visualize a better year 2025. I don’t know that the stock market will have a better year because it’s been a pretty hopping 2024 and 2023, by the way, but I always think the market’s going up every year. Rand Stagen, thank you for that thought, and for that podcast we did together in September and I’m looking forward to continued association over the airwaves with you in 2025.

Rand Stagen: But I got to break a rule. I got to stop you from stopping. I have another prediction. My prediction is that I will be invited back to the Rule Breaker podcast or return appearance in 2025 and that it will be such a good podcast that I will be considered for a bestie once again [laughs] That’s my prediction, that’s going to happen. I’m just going to you said, it all starts with dreaming and hoping. I think I’m going to have to just personalize that and make that part of my manifestation for next year.

David Gardner: You know that I’m honored that you are so focused. You are that focused on that prize. You bring something special to this podcast, Rand, thank you so much. Happy holidays to you, my friend and see you in 2025.

Rand Stagen: Happy holidays.

David Gardner: Bestie number 4 proved how rewarding it can be occasionally step off the path, hunting for new places and Rule Breakery insights. I had wanted for some time to look at art as an investment. What would breaking the rules mean if we’re talking about art and is art a good investment? Well, in the world of art investing, the artist isn’t the sole creator. Our new friend Tonya Turner Carroll said, and I quote, “The artist is only half of the experience. The collector brings the other half.” Tonya and her husband and business partner, Michael Carroll, are both longtime gallery owners and advisors and on February 7 of this year, they showed us how to up your game when investing in art. Build relationships with insightful dealers, understand the artists cultural and historical context and search out iconic subject matter that speaks in a timely and timeless way. Approaching investing in art in this way can transform a mere purchase into something that resonates deeply and more valuablely.

Well, the Carolls are back, Tonya, Michael, first of all, congratulations on your Bestie. Even though it’s all virtual, there’s no fancy artistic hardware, unfortunately, this award. If we ever do commission a trophy, guess who I’m calling.

Michael Carroll: Wait, who?

David Gardner: You both.

Tonya Turner Carroll: We’re really happy to be here.

Michael Carroll: Happy to be here.

Tonya Turner Carroll: Honored to be on the besties.

David Gardner: Thank you. Tonya and Michael, tell me, where are you right now?

Tonya Turner Carroll: We are outside on a collector’s beautiful balcony in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. We just wrapped up the Art Basel Miami week. We were exhibiting for an entire week in Miami and we are installing right now painting in a new friend’s home. We have a new collector that we met at the art fair, and we are hanging that artwork on their wall after a night.

Michael Carroll: They made us lunch. We’re here. We couldn’t be happier. We’ve been in a big tent for a week and now I am looking at the water.

David Gardner: I truly wish that this were a video podcast because you are high up looking over a gorgeous view of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Blue Skies. You guys obviously have had a fun week and congratulations. I know Art Basel is a pretty big deal and I’m sure you made it your playground over the last few days. Well, Tonya and Michael, I’m going to ask you the same two questions. I’m asking each of our visiting guest stars coming back for our besties. Let me turn to you first, Tonya. Any further reflections since on that podcast we did together or any developments in the art world or in your own thinking?

Tonya Turner Carroll: Yes, actually. I’m glad you asked. Doing the podcast with you really made us dig deeper into our own practice as art workers. So one thing that we’ve done is we have worked to get licensing ourselves on our own team to be able to provide something else that we might not have talked so much about on the podcast earlier?

David Gardner: Tell me.

Tonya Turner Carroll: It’s a member of your team., you need to have a trusted team, a trusted art advisor who can help you make a good choice that’s personal to you. But you also need to have somebody on the other end of it and this is something we’ve always done, but we haven’t been able to articulate it. That is to make a bridge between the person that has already invested in art and what they do with it when they want to either sell it or donate it to a museum or make it part of their estate planning. What we’ve done is delve into professional appraisal certification so that we can now track values as they rise and fall every year of certain artists and artworks and identify trends so that we can tell if an artist is on an upward trajectory or a downward.

David Gardner: It’s like a stock.

Tonya Turner Carroll: I guess it is. It’s important because the art historian, I guess, in our organization, I’m the art historian and I will always tell you that someone like Charles White is somebody that you should buy. He’s an incredible artist. But there are certain times, obviously the value of a Charles White work is going to be higher than it will be in a year. The only way you can know that is to know which museum exhibitions are upcoming, if there are any major auctions that have just happened. One thing I would add to what we said previously is that, in addition to an art advisor, you need to have an actively engaged appraiser on your team of experts.

David Gardner: That’s really wonderful, Tonya. I’m glad both for the personal growth that that sounds like you’re trying something new, you’re getting bigger with what you’re doing, but also connecting it into something that a lot of us would appreciate as investors, which is that you’ve got your finger on the pulse and there’s some more timely times to buy or to sell than others. Michael, let me turn next to you and ask you any further reflections on our podcast or on your 2024.

Michael Carroll: I am with Tonya on this. It’s become more apparent that de-accessioning is almost as important as accessioning. So we toss the word collector around as dealers, but it’s really anyone who buys a piece of artwork. But how many headlines have you seen lately that say the kids don’t want the stuff? [laughs] People are up against the sunset of the estate tax exemption. This is all real world stuff, it’s not art world specific. It’s very clear that more planning needs to be done in a very particular way. Cultural objects aren’t cash.

An entire collection of things is not going to go to one museum. It’s just not going to happen. In a way, museums do collectors favors by taking their cultural objects because they are promising to keep them in perpetuity. We as donors think that, we made this great gift and we’re helping out. That’s true, too. But it’s an enormous commitment from a museum to take a piece of art or an antique or an object of some kind. That process can take years for one object. I’m guessing that the estate tax exemption is going to get kicked down the road, I mean it’s not going to close to be the lower 13 or $14 million for a couple.

Michael Carroll: However, these things play along with politics, and they’re really, really, truly not predictable. Unless you’ve got a good plan, and unless you’re talking to your kids about what they want, and if they don’t want 95% of what is hanging on your walls because they don’t have the stories, like we who bought the pieces have the stories, then it’s going to be a bigger problem for the kids and the legacy that you as a collector, have tried to create to tell stories and to have memories of meeting these people and the travels and the artists and all. Great wine you drank hanging around. All that’s going to be sold at a fire sale. That’s something that’s really been on my mind, and we’re expanding our business lines to help people do accession because there’s a lot of great work coming out of collections as as collect.

David Gardner: That’s something that most of us who are not part of the professional world don’t think about very often, but that formal process by which a museum or gallery or other institution permanently removes artwork or objects from their collection and what happens to it. You both are helping us think. There’s a little bit of Wills States thinking going on here too, in terms of what is our legacy, dear listener? What is your legacy, and are you going to ensure that it’s going to be what you expect it to be? Well, thank you both for some of that thinking, continuing to educate us. Quick question too close, then I’ll turn back to Michael first for this one, Michael, what is a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction that you have for the year 2025?

Michael Carroll: An interesting thought is that I want artwork to get more interesting again. The art world, at least the dealers in particular, seem to have taken a break from pushing the envelope. Election cycles always take the wind out of the art market, and there’s a safe haven to use, like, a financial term world of movement into pieces of known artists, 40% of the art market. That’ll swing back and that specifically when I say exciting, I’m really talking about younger artists, the new ways of saying, the new ways of thinking that that material is going to be more present because it’s really been out of the eye of the art fairs and the dealers and the public for a good year or so. Anything in the museum generally speaking, that’s been curated two years ago or so. That’s my wish.

David Gardner: Thank you, Michael, for that wish. Tonya, turning to you to close. A wish? An interesting thought or a prediction for the year ahead.

Tonya Turner Carroll: A wish is that the complete injustice of there being only 1.2% artists of color in museum permanent collections, and only 11% women artists in permanent collections of museums. My wish is that collectors would come forward and specifically fund acquisitions for museums of works by those underrepresented artists. My prediction is that that will only happen if people like us have symposiums where people who would be those investors can meet the curators who want the works by those artists, but can’t afford them and that some of those collectors step up and start funding those important acquisitions.

Michael Carroll: Yeah, it’s not clear how to donate a work, and that’s perhaps a subject for another time, but there you have it.

David Gardner: Well, thank you, Tonya Turner Carroll and Michael Carroll, for the podcast that we did together earlier this year, which is going to continue to be a resource that I’ll point anybody to who’s interested in investing in art and doing it better. I would say more F, Foolishly. From one F Fool to two others, thank you both for joining us and creating a Bestie for 2024.

Tonya Turner Carroll: Thank you.

Michael Carroll: Thank you, David.

David Gardner: Bestie number five was one I’d been planning for years. I talked last year about how I would do it this year, which I did. On July 10th, 2024, review of Palooza Ultima 35 stock samplers in 10.5 chapters. This review of Palooza Ultima podcast arose from a unique experiment. Over six years on this podcast, I picked 30 different five stock samplers, all tracked for accountability and learning. Inspired by both fun and seriousness, each sampler had a theme, sometimes silly like all stocks starting with the letter M as in M, good.

Other times timely, like five stocks for the coronavirus. I hope that this playful creativity would offer listeners not just stock picks, but ideally, ideally, a master class in long term market beating investment strategies, all taught transparently and in real time, accounting for every loser and winner. What makes this episode of bestie is its grand finale nature, a meticulous final accounting of all 150 stock picks and their multi year journeys. Against an S&P 500 average gain of 40% over those standard three year windows, these samplers averaged a 76% return, delivering a striking margin of victory. That’s 150 stocks effectively putting 76% returns up against 150 competitors, the S&P, putting up 40% each time. This in a world, of course, where people are influenced, counseled, taught in some cases, not to pick individual stocks because you can’t beat the market. That would just be luck. Well, I’ve disagreed with that assertion my whole life long, and in many different contexts, Motley Fool Stock Advisor, Motley Fool Rule Breakers, the original full portfolio, that launched when we launched day 1 on AOL in August of 1994, my CAPS page for those who follow Motley Fool CAPS, in every one of these contexts, all of which took place over years and years, not just one market cycle.

I’ve beaten, indeed, I would say crushed the market averages, along with those who simply copied or followed me, which is what you could along with these 35 stock samplers. For those listening to this podcast, which is, by the way, I think you know a free podcast, you’re not necessarily Motley Fool members or fans. You may not know much about The Motley Fool or my track records or investing at all. Maybe you’re here to learn. Here was another arena in which to play in some ways, the most public of all because, yeah, tens of thousands of listeners and free. So, 35 stock samplers, small baskets of stocks picked every 10 weeks or so, over six years and tracked ever since. It truly was an ultimate moment of fun for me to score those samplers as a whole the full project over the largely three year contests they compose.

On that July day this year, I also revealed something more remarkable, their long term follow through performance, simply continuing to hold and track these stocks beyond the three year windows that we gave them, reviewing results from the days they were first picked, starting in 2015 into July of this year, which pushed the combined advantage of those 150 stocks if you’re listening, you’ll remember to now even loftier 168% return versus the market’s 102%, which demonstrates again how time and patience multiply your edge.

Again, over three year windows, those 150 stocks from big time losers like Peloton or to you to big time winners like Tesla or Nvidia , in radically different market environments, well outpaced the market. I have one more special update for this, bestie. Let’s update those 150 stocks now. Updated through this Tuesday morning, December 10th, as we record, those 150 stocks bought and held all the way through now are now up 239% on average versus the S&P 500 119%, meaning those percentage points of average at performance have now become plus 120. In fact, we’ve now doubled up the S&P 500, 239-119. But enough about that, I know it comes off as bragging, and that’s a lot of numbers. But in my review of Palooza Ultima, I hope that listeners, both new and old will be amazed by stories of sudden COVID era spikes. Dizzying collapses in the face of so much victory and the enduring lesson that losing to win is essential for Rule Breakers success. In that podcast, I tell the unbelievable to me story of the five stocks for the coronavirus, which as a sampler famously soared 240% in their first year, then fell into deep losses and have become the worst performing five stock sampler of all. In fact, updating to now as a basket, those five stocks are down 8.3%.

That’s not horrible. They’re just down 8% on average. The problem is the S&P 500 from April 8th, 2020 is up 121%. As a basket, they’re -129. Good news you can lose badly and still win great, which is such a fundamental lesson of Rule Breaker investing. The biggest takeaway, I think, from this experiment and from our review of Palooza Ultima Bestie is timeless. True wealth building isn’t about never losing. It’s about always holding on to your biggest winners. In a world where short term fears abound, these samplers proved yet again that playing the long game and trusting in growth and innovation creates not just victory but a legacy of ever expanding Alpha. It’s a fitting and triumphant send off to a six year journey that has now become a nine year journey and counting. That is enough for a bestie.

On to Bestie number 6. Now on 1st of May, May Day. We revisited the world of dividend investing on this podcast. It’s a subject often overshadowed by the flash of dynamic Rule Breaker stocks, but still fundamental in building wealth and stability. Joined by longtime Fool advisors Matt Argersinger and Buck Hartzell, we examined why dividends have grown less common over decades, citing low interest rates, regulatory changes enabling easy buybacks, and the tech driven preference for reinvesting over getting payouts. Yet we also noted that the tide could turn as market conditions shift. We tackled the practical virtues of dividends from their role as a cash cushion during downturns to the discipline they enforce on companies, and we clarified common misunderstandings, highlighting that dividends don’t signal the end of a company’s growth and that not all buybacks equate to genuine shareholder returns.

This podcast receives a bestie for the high quality of my guests. Flat out, both Matt and Buck have been serving Motley Fool members for years and years. It was a delight to have such talented friends back on this podcast, and in a similar way that I enjoyed my conversation about investing in art with the Caroll’s well, dividend investing discussion also presents, I think, a nice in to the young of Rule Breaker Investing. Matt and Buck deserve a return cameo on this podcast. Matt Argersinger, Buck Hartzell, great to see you.

Matt Argersinger: Great to be here, David. Thank you.

Buck Hartzell: Yeah, thank you. It’s great to be back, David.

David Gardner: Thank you. Matt, let me turn to you first. You guys know my two questions. The first question, Matt, feel free to speak to some of the companies we discussed seven months, two quarters ago. Matt, what is the reflection you’ve had since or something you’ve learned since our podcast in May?

Matt Argersinger: Well, I have to say, David, the three companies I shared at the end of that podcast have all had interesting summers slash falls. The first one, RPM International, ticker RPM. It recently hit a new all time high, which is great. Most importantly, because we love talking about this during the May show, but it just raised its dividend by 11% in October, and that was the 51st consecutive increase in the dividend for RPM.

David Gardner: Fantastic.

Matt Argersinger: Right on track, and the stock is, you’re an all time high. The second company was Hershey Company, which we had fun with at the time. It was trading around $190 a share it’s roughly right there right now. Cocoa prices, which were at record highs back in May, are still near record highs, so that’s hurting the company. But Mondelez, the food company is once again, according to Bloomberg, trying to buy Hershey. They made an attempt back in 2016, I believe, rebuffed. It’s a tall task to try to acquire Hershey because of the nature of the ownership of the trust that’s there. We talked about that in the last show.

David Gardner: That’s right.

Matt Argersinger: We’ll have to see if Mondelez is successful this time.

David Gardner: Yeah, Hershey, this is all breaking news this week, Matt, so very ocaron.

Matt Argersinger: That’s right. then Starbucks had a pretty eventful summer. As you know David, Brian Nichols, the former CEO of Chipotle, came on to be Starbucks CEO here. That became effective in October. The stock has rallied about 30% since that announcement in August that he was going to become the CEO. It’s had a nice move. Lots of confidence in Brian Nichols. We’ll see if he pulls it off. He has his what he’s calling the back to Starbucks strategy, which includes improving the story experience, increasing order throughput. Two big tasks, big challenges that are going to be hard to get right, but he certainly has the right experience coming from Chipotle.

David Gardner: Fantastic. Matt, thank you. Thanks for updates on the three companies you mentioned. That is so F, Foolish. Remembering what we said and speaking back to it, being accountable, whether we win or lose, you got some nice winners there. Buck, let me turn it over to you.

Buck Hartzell: Yeah. I had three companies too, not probably as much movement in the business as Starbucks naming a new CEO. All my leaders are still there. But some interesting stuff with the stocks, I picked all three Canadian stocks.

David Gardner: I forgot that’s awesome.

Buck Hartzell: Yeah. I think investors need to realize there’s some wonderful businesses. I think we all know Shopify up north of us is a Canadian company, but there are a lot of ones that people haven’t heard of that are wonderful. That’s what I did, because that’s what I was feeling at the time back in May. Quick update on those MTY Food Group. They’re the owner of Cold Stone Creamery and Sweet frog, if you’ve ever gotten the frozen yogurt from them, TCBY. The stock is down about 3.7%, but the business has performed really well. They raised their dividends 9.1% over the previous year. That’s well ahead of inflation. They also are paying down debt from two big acquisitions.

They bought BBQ Holdings, which is a conglomerate of barbecue restaurants and also Wetzel’s Pretzels. For those of you’re from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, you know Auntie Anne’s. It’s the same thing, but it’s Wetzel’s delicious soft pretzels. They’re paying down that debt. But the interesting thing that I really like is they’re buying back stock now. They’re putting some of their capital and they generate strong recurring cash flows because it’s mostly a franchise operation. I think what you’ll see happen in the next couple of years ahead is they’ll pay down some of that debt, and the multiple for the stock will go up. Business is going very well at MTY, but the stock’s down, so I like it more.

David Gardner: How about your other two, Buck?

Buck Hartzell: Yeah, the other two, Enghouse is another one where the stock is flat, but in just two quarters, they’ve raised both dividends. In total, the dividends are up 18.5% over the previous year. They are sitting with no debt, record cash balance that they get from an increasing amount of recurring revenues, close to 70% of their revenue recurring. They’re a software business with $258 million in cash. The business is doing very well, and they’ve had their fourth consecutive quarter of double digit revenue growth. We’re sitting at a time where it’s a 10 year low on a multiple, but yet the business is growing nicely, and they have record cash for more acquisitions. I really like Enghouse here as well.

David Gardner: Makes sense.

Buck Hartzell: The last one is Brookfield Infrastructure, which is up about 40% just from May. That’s ahead of, I think, my expectations. They were a high dividend yield stock at the time. They were yielding close to 6%. Now it’s down quite a bit just because as interest rates have come down and the Fed has started to cut rates, some of these higher dividend yielding stocks have become more preferable. I think that’s also happening across real estate investment trusts and things, but Matt covers those more than I do. But I’d say Brookfield Infrastructure is doing exactly as we thought. The stock has done better than I would have thought when we recommended it, but that’s up 40% since we’ve gone, and they’ve raised dividends 5.8% over that time.

David Gardner: Fantastic. I love right in the middle of our besties we’re getting stock updates for dividend stocks. That is exactly what I want from my besties every year and from my good friends, Matt and Buck. Thank you guys for updating us on the stocks that you talked about. I’m quite certain a lot of people listening Part 1 or more of them, and I’m delighted to hear that we’re doing pretty well. Those are companies, some of them making news, others quiet, and yet they’re all paying and/or raising dividends. That was the main point of dividend Fools Volume 2, our bestie winner. Let me close it out. I’ll turn back to you Buck. First, what is a wish an interesting thought or a prediction you have for 2025?

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Buck Hartzell: I had a lot of wishes because it’s that time of year, David. But I’ll throw my first one out there, and this comes really from a trip that I did right before we got together in May. I went to Patagonia for about three and a half weeks and had some time in Argentina. What I realized when I was there was that it’s really important for Americans to be exemplars for the rest of the world and I mean that just not only our leadership politically, but of our businesses and individuals. I think just collectively, when I look around, my wish for America is to just be more civil, to be more team players and just be successful. I spend a lot of my time at the Fool looking at incentives and how they’re aligned, and I would just say, wouldn’t it be wonderful if everyone on our favorite sports teams were incentivized for one thing, winning, not just how many touchdowns or catches or yards or whatever else, but they’re paid based on how well the overall team performs. I feel that way about companies, and I feel that way about our country. I would just say, be team players, be more civil, and think about the outcome more than yourself.

David Gardner: Well said, Buck Hartzell, hear hear. Matt, what about you? A wish, an interesting thought or a prediction?

Matt Argersinger: Let me also echo that was really well said, Buck, and I don’t want to have to follow that, but I will. I will just say we’ve had two pretty spectacular years in a row for the stock market. If you go by the S&P 500, the market is up nearly 30%. I know we still have a couple of weeks here, but up nearly 30%. In 2023, the market was up 21%. Two fantastic years in a row and David, I know you said many times, the market is generally up two out of every three years. That also means, though, of course, that it’s generally down one out of every three years, and we’ve had two amazing years in a row. I think if you’re an investor, this doesn’t mean 2025 is going to be bad. I just think it means we probably need to head into the new year mindful that the probability of a down year is higher now than it was, I think, coming into 2024. That also means there are going to be opportunities. But I think if investors go in a little bit with that mindset saying, hey, things been great, I should probably prepare myself for maybe a little more volatility or the chance that we have maybe a not so great year in 2025. I think there’s a Foolish approach to that, which is just, be mindful of that and look for opportunities.

David Gardner: I love it. Well, of course, I think the market’s going up next year, but that’s the market call I make every year, Matt, and I’m wrong as you mentioned, about one third of the time. Really appreciate that thought and, I think for a lot of us, well, it’s fun to think about how good this year was, how good last year was, frankly, how bad the year before that was and how next year might be. But I think if you’re playing the game that Buck, Matt, and so many of our members play, the long game where you’re making, I would say, if you’re making a lifetime commitment to the market and staying invested all the way through, I think, A, you’ll do better and B, by buying and holding and just adding those dividends right along as we go quarter by quarter, you actually do a lot less work than people who are constantly jumping in or jumping out and trading. I think that’s also part of the magic of our dividend Fools. Well, Buck Hartzell, Matt Argaing, I really want to thank you for that podcast we did together for your thoughts and for your cameo appearance on this year’s besties, huzzah.

Matt Argersinger: Thank you, David.

David Gardner: Happy holidays.

Buck Hartzell: Thank you.

David Gardner: Bestie Number 7 came on October 9th. Innovating the future with XPRIZE, Elaine Hungenberg proved exceptionally timely and timeless by revealing how one bold challenge can spin off industries worth trillions. Hearing about the first XPRIZE which ignited private space travel, we see how offering $10 million set into motion a new era that governments alone couldn’t have achieved. Just as impressive was Elaine’s account of the wildfire XPRIZE, a visionary challenge that demands instant autonomous suppression of dangerous wildfires. I think we can all vote for that. These and others of Elaine’s stories show that moonshot thinking can reshape not just products or industries, but entire global systems. Well, in a year of big ideas, Elaine reminded us to aim for the moon. If you fail, you’ll land among the stars. One listener reflected, and I quote, “I just finished your conversation with Elaine Hungenberg episode twice”. Definitely a 2024 besties nominee. Her positive energy is through the roof, and in a great way, she’s very inspiring and “she is”, and she’s back. Elaine Hungenberg, thank you for that podcast we did in October. Welcome back to Rule Breaker Investing.

Elaine Hungenberg: Thanks, David.

David Gardner: Well, Elaine, the two questions I’ve been asking each of my treasured guests this week, of course, the first one is any reflections on that podcast we did together. Now, admittedly, it was just two months ago, but any thoughts back on the podcast or on our world at large in the meantime?

Elaine Hungenberg: Yes, lots of thoughts, David. It was so much fun. The first thought we talked a lot about innovation and the creative minds of everyone around the world. For me, I truly believe in the power of contrarian thinking, and driving change. But the importance of challenging dominant narratives to create breakthroughs, they really need to do more good than they do harm. It’s the hidden risk of innovation. The challenge of balancing bold ideas with ethical or societal considerations. I have just been recently enthralled with when the underestimated approach or, the underdog end up being the groundbreaking solution because they do it in a way that is unexpected and is more inclusive. We talk about this at the Motley Fool Foundation all the time. That a powerful collaboration of ingenuity. It raises the boat. For me, in the era of contrarian thinking, whether that be politically or in society, I think it’s important to be inclusive and to think about who you’re innovating for and who those solutions will be used by. I’m encouraged by the world at large, as you know, but I think that we’re at an inflection point where, consumers and investors, especially, have a role to play in that. That’s my reflection on our podcast. That was just two months ago and was so much fun, David.

David Gardner: I love it. You’ve been around the world. You travel more than most people I know, Elaine, and you’re going to interesting places and meeting fascinating people, and we don’t have time for that. But we did share some of that together on a podcast. I hope anybody who missed it will be able to be inspired to go back and listen to. But Elaine, thank you for that contribution, and it does make me think so much about my own investing approach and Rule Breaker Investing, the name of the podcast, because we really do celebrate the Rule Breakers. As Steve Jobs once said, and Apple went big with this campaign, think different and when you do, it can be a little bit disquieting or sometimes you look like a crazy underdog that has no shot but when that works out, especially in the stock market, we really can get smarter, happier, and richer as a consequence. We celebrate the underdogs and the muckrakers and the dream scapers. Thank you for that very much, Elaine. My final question for you is, of course, for the year ahead, do you have for us a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction?

Elaine Hungenberg: I do have a wish, David, and my biggest wish for 2025 is that we’ll begin seeing solutions for the world’s most intractable problems, not as a zero sum battle, but as an opportunity to unlock exponential growth for everybody. Where things like tackling climate change or poverty or health isn’t seen as a sacrifice, but as an investment. You and I know that when we invest in good, that we do well. That’s my wish for 2025.

David Gardner: I love it. It puts me in mind of the great Harry Truman line. I know you know this when Elaine, optimists make opportunities of their difficulties, and pessimists make difficulties of their opportunities. I love that spirit of looking for solutions. Often in life, one of the big secrets in life to me is we find what we’re looking for. Let’s make sure we’re looking for the best things. Elaine Hungenberg, I’m so glad to be your friend. Thank you for joining me on that special podcast in October, which has received a bestie. Especially, thanks for making time for our cameo for this special episode. Fool on, my friend.

Elaine Hungenberg: Thanks for having me, David.

David Gardner: Recording the episode that wins bestie Number 8, made for a unique experiment. I asked ChatGPT the AI tool much talked about on this podcast before and by the world at large to come up with five of the most beautiful, challenging, inventive, valuable, provocative and or Foolish questions about Rule Breaker investing, and I would endeavor to answer them. Instead of me interviewing a guest, I let AI interview me on that podcast, responding directly to its queries. This is a fun twist. It blended emergent technology with timeless investing principles. I was genuinely curious to see how well ChatGPT knew this podcast and what it would ask. I think it delivered something special.

This one earns a bestie because it perfectly illustrates why we keep pushing the boundaries. New tech like AI integrates with new thinking because by the way, Rule Breaker investing is very much new thinking for the world at large, as well as you and I may know it. Principles like fine top dogs, let winners run, embrace conscious capitalism and never fear losing as part of winning. That’s very much new thinking for the world at large. Now if you miss the episode, expect a few aha moments how human centered AI can enrich, not replace our creativity in investing judgment. How one colossal winner can dwarf numerous flops and why maintaining a portfolio that truly reflects your best vision for our future is indispensable. I think this conversation reveals something timely, and that would be our comfort in experimenting with AI and also something timeless because we’re all learners, adapting to new landscapes without abandoning core values. Ultimately ChatGPT asks David Answers reassured me that while technology evolves, the core principles of Rule Breaker Investing and the human spirit behind them stay beautifully intact.

There was a great line that I got to rock in that episode. I’m going to rock it again here. It’s from @ author J Mac, Joanna on Twitter, X. Here’s what she said. She said, I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing.

Not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes. If you didn’t hear that episode, give it a listen and see what you think. If you enjoyed it, know that on that day in June, a new Rule Breaker Investing episodic series was born. In fact, I’ve already added Volume 2 into it, complete with some new baseball theming, where every question ChatGPT challenges me with is like into a baseball pitch, a fastball curve, a screwball question for ChatGPT. That was Volume 2 a month ago on November 13th, but the bestie goes to the OG, the Volume 1 that got us started.

Bestie Number 9 was, what are my favorite memories from this podcast in 2024? Seventy three of the more memorable minutes I spent all year long. It was our first ever Market Cap Game Show, World Championships, featuring longtime Motley Fool advisors, personalities, bright lights, Andy Cross and Bill Mann, each of whom had secured his place by first advancing from a final four. This was not just another friendly guessing game. This was high pressure, high skill competition at its finest, as they fenced with numbers, calling out tight market cap ranges and wrestling with companies both obscure and legendary. We listeners were treated to an epic tug of war where each point felt like a triumph. By the time we reached the final showdown, the tension was palpable.

Our two brilliant Fools were tied, leaving a final tiebreaker to forever enshrine one of them as our inaugural champion, the precision, the drama, the razor thin margins, all of it. Made for a uniquely exhilating episode that showcased not just financial acumen, but the fun and camaraderie that define this podcast spirit. If investing is often described as a marathon, well, this was the sprint. An unforgettable laughter laced heart in throat dash toward glory. Now world champion Andy Cross and world runner up Bill Mann are back. Guys, let’s reflect back on that podcast we did together a bit. Andy, I’ll turn to you first, thoughts.

Andy Cross: Hi, David, it was so much fun. It was so great going against Bill for that competition. Combined, we have like 90 years of experience or more than 80 years of experience here at The Motley Fool with investing. A ton of fun. It is funny to look back on that, and if you look at it from that time, about the market’s up about 17%, so a great stock market. Our combined batch of stocks we talked about is up about eight or 9%, so hasn’t kept up with the-

David Gardner: I love you’re tracking that.

Bill Mann: How did we get blamed for this? They were random.

Andy Cross: I don’t blame myself, Bill. I just blame you for this. But here’s what’s really interesting. When I reflect back on that, David, there was one that I got so horribly wrong. It was just embarrassing. It was Synaptics. I came out with a guess of 80-$100 billion in market cap for Synaptics. Synaptics is a sub 10 billion. I lost that against Bill. I think he tied me on that round. But what’s interesting is Synaptics is even smaller today cause it’s down 15% since we talked about that. My guess of Synaptics was so wrong. Of course, I love looking at stock in investing, business, sports, whatever it is. You have winners, you have losers, Synaptics. I got terribly wrong that day, but I ended up still taking the championship trophy, so I respect that.

David Gardner: It was epic, Bill. Are you still heartbroken? Have you gotten over this? Was there a process? The five stages of grief? Have you gone through it?

Bill Mann: This was Chris Hart at the buzzer. This was Diakite of the fingertips. It was the closest of margins, but I remember that exact moment, too, because both Andy and I thought it was an entirely different company.

David Gardner: Synopsis, baby? Yes. I thought it was synopsis

Bill Mann: We were both off by, a factor of 10, and yet one of us was closer than the other. By the rules of the game, someone, and I believe it was Andy, got a stinking point for that.

David Gardner: Well, guys, I’ve asked you for one additional bit of insight. I think you know what’s coming. Turn to you first this time, Bill. What is a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction you have Bill Mann for the year 2025?

Bill Mann: I just want to win.

David Gardner: Just want to win.

Bill Mann: One of the main stories of 2024 has been the dominance of the magnificent seven and the concentration of the US stock market among the top 10 companies, and really the top industry being technology. The US has what I describe as a structural and philosophical lead in technology. I think in 2025, if anything, we’re going to see that lead extended. That’s not really a stock market call because I think we would say that the stock market has really figured out these companies.

But I don’t think in 2025 we’re going to look and say, hey, there’s a company that’s coming up from any place outside of the United States that has any real opportunity to upend these phenomenal generators of capital.

David Gardner: That is an interesting thought, indeed, Bill. I know a lot of us, I’m sure a couple of us included own at least one, if not more of those companies, and they have been mainstays for our portfolios, and a lot of the out performance, if you have experienced out-performance dear listener, may well come down to just one of those because you pick any one of those stocks. If it goes up 100 times in value over 10 or 15 years, you’re going to be beating the market, and I’m happy to say there are some Rule Breakers among those. But thank you Bill, I appreciate that.

As a fellow American, I hope that we’ll continue to share our learning, knowledge, and wealth and a spirit of freedom worldwide and encourage more and more people in other countries and cultures to embrace the best of what we have. Not everything that we have, because let’s face it, we suck too at some things. But the truth is that I do agree that conscious capitalism, especially plants its flag, not to start getting into an Ohio State Michigan conversation Michigan alum, Andy Cross, but there’s a lot of good flag planning when it comes to conscious capitalism in the United States of America. I hope that extends out further. Andy, what is an interesting thought a wish, an interesting thought or a prediction you have for 2025?

Andy Cross: Just very quickly, if I may, I agree 100% with Bill’s comment. I’m looking forward to reading the NVIDIA way, the new book that’s coming out about Jensen Wong and what he has built and how he has built it NVIDIA, which is coming out soon. Just the reflection on that, I’m really interested to see I have two quick comments, David, if I may, really interested to see how the expansion of AI technology and automation starts to impact so many more companies, and we start to hear a lot more about it at the enterprise level from companies across all sectors and industries on how they are benefiting, and we need to see that because the expectations is that the earnings potential will be somewhere in the 13% for the S&P 500 versus, I think it’s barely flat this year, pretty much on the earning side. To continue that margin growth, we need to see that innovation to be able to expand margins.

I’m excited to see how that plays out across other industries. However, the thing that I’m really interested in, David is Bill and I were talking about Berkshire Hathaway earlier. I am a shareholder, have been for many years, and I have never been to the Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting ever in my life and Warren now, Mr. Buffett is approaching 94, I think, maybe around that and I hope to make it out to Omaha this year for that, and I hope he does, as well.

Bill Mann: Let’s do it.

Andy Cross: All the year.

David Gardner: Love it. Road trip with Andy and Bill. I’m signed up. It’s going to stream probably not Netflix, guys, but Peacock, maybe. Like season 1. I would like to a cameo in your streaming show.

Andy Cross: I got it.

David Gardner: But road trip with Andy and Bill to see Warren. That is a fun documentary, that I would help fund.

Andy Cross: Wonderful. We might need funding for that.

Bill Mann: David, we’ll talk after.

David Gardner: Speaking of entertainment properties, in the meantime, you added a lot of value to this one with Bestie number 9, which was the Market Cap Game Show finals with Andy and Bill. Guys, thank you so much. Not just for the fun of that hour and this Bestie, but the friendship that we’ve enjoyed, the value we’ve created together. Looking back over these 90 combined years, I trust that’ll keep going forward. I hope a lot more years too. Andy, Bill, happy holidays, guys, Fool on.

Bill Mann: Same to you. Thanks David.

Andy Cross: Thanks, David. Happy holidays, Bill.

David Gardner: I had such fun with the podcast this year. I’m thinking of my authors in August, which are not represented here this year, but were such a delight. For instance, the conversation with Stanford neuroscientist David Eagleman and his wildly inventive book, Sum. Indeed, in that podcast, he helped create maybe one of our best buy sell hold segments in Motley Fool History so cheers to David and to all my authors. But I’ve reserved Bestie number 10 for what was my favorite podcast of the year, actually, two, because it spawned a Companion Weekend Extra, and that was February 28, when we recorded our special 100th Mailbag episode, February 2024 Mailbag, number 100 very good company.

It featured the voices of seven longtime listeners and contributors, Jason Moore, Dave Geck, Jim, Jason Trice, Adam Nelson, Mike McMahon, and Jason Newman. That hour offered rich testimony to what makes this podcast community so special, the power of relationships, the value of optimism, the inspiration of shared insights, and the enduring support found right here across their stories, a common thread emerged that investing is more than stocks and returns. It’s also about generous dialogue, mutual encouragement, and the friends we make who celebrate our successes, share our burdens, and remind us that we’re all in it together.

Each guest affirmed the importance of community, making it clear that as we learn from one another, we all grow smarter, happier, and richer together. Indeed, each of my contributors drop me an update this week in the form of short answers to my two bestie questions. One, any reflection since, two, what is their wish, interesting thought or prediction for 2025? In the same order that I introduce them on the 100th mailbag, I will close out this year’s podcast, this bestie with Bestie number 10 with their updates from our very good company.

Jason Moore up first answer number 1, reflecting on the February podcast, Jason writes, February already. I’m struck by how it emphasized the joy of shared experiences, not just about investments, but also about how authentic stories inspire others to find value in unexpected places. I loved how each guest had unique backgrounds but shared common themes. Being part of such a milestone episode was a humbling experience. Jason Moore goes on, and I’m so glad I had a chance to connect and learn from the others involved. It reminded me of how essential communities like this are for growth. Whether financial, personal or intellectual. It has also led me to compare my investing portfolios from February to now this week, and guess what? It looks like the market is going up this year. He includes a winky Emoji. Thank you again, Jason writes for the chance to share and grow alongside such a fantastic community and answer number 2, he says, I predict we’ll see AI powered animal communication tools emerge, an echo of Babltricity from the RBI episode The Year the market skyrocketed. Imagine your dog explaining its deep seated hatred for delivery trucks or your cat delivering a TEDTalk on why humans will never truly understand elegance.

As Larry McCloskey might have said, every creature has his story, and thanks to AI, we might soon hear them, though hopefully with fewer exploding ferrets. Thank you, Jason Moore. Next on to Dave Geck answer number 1 on reflection. Dave wrote, “I committed to getting in shape to do one pull up and bench press 90% of my weight. I’ve learned that for me at 71, that is not easy to do. I’m up to my lips and about 75% need to keep at it. I’m surprised but surprisingly not disappointed because I’ve come to reflect that going for improvement is more important than getting there”. Answer number 2 from Dave Geck, my hope for 2025 is that David Gardner starts a new annual segment on reviewing his five stock samplers. My favorite podcast by far across the spectrum of not only Rule Breakers, but all podcasts. I am listening to or have listened to over the years, Dave writes, “If you would have to toss something out to shoehorn this in, I propose the games review”.

Let me add I listen to those reviews, though I’ve never bought or wanted any of the games, but it is interesting to see how games and games within games evolve. I don’t want to see it go, but dot, dot that’s where Dave Geck leaves it. Thank you, Dave Geck. Onto Jim. Jim, answer number 1, the past few years, especially 2024, have felt so politicized with division and extreme voices taking center stage, but what stood out to me about our group is how none of that mattered. We didn’t care who lived in red or blue states or political differences. We even have a Canadian at Jason Moore. Instead, we connected through our interactions, perspectives, and what we each brought to the table. It made me realize I was surrounded by truly kind and remarkable people. Looking back, I’m sure we could have had a respectful, meaningful discussion about politics if it had come up. John’s answer number 2, on that note for 2025 and beyond, my wish is simple.

Let’s focus on respect, character, and the good in others, instead of labels or affiliations. I believe we have more in common than we think. I believe meaningful conversations done with empathy, patience, and humility bring us closer together. Like you said, David, most people are moderate. What we see in the news doesn’t reflect the true majority. Let’s not let those extremes convince us otherwise or push us into taking unnecessary sides. This incredible community has been such a positive reminder that the world is full of good, thoughtful people. I’m excited to keep learning from each other and adding more value to the world, wishing you and everyone a year filled with good health, kindness, and joy. Thank you, Jim.

Now on to Jason Trice. Jason, answer number one, I was overwhelmed, he writes, by the sense of community between what I thought were strangers. Within a couple of minutes, it felt like I was chatting with lifelong friends. It’s a testament to the community you’ve created through the Fool and the Rule Breakers investing podcast. It also serves as a reminder that the things that unite us are much stronger than those that divide us. His answer number 2, I’ll stick with a community theme. Jason Trice writes, “Understanding how integral community has been in my life. My wish for 2025 is that everyone will find a community that embraces, supports, and challenges them. I hope to do my part by supporting existing communities or potentially starting my own. I guess this is also a prediction. People are hungry for connection and wise companies will place an emphasis on creating and building communities in 2025”. Thank you, Jason Trice.

On to Participant number 5 of seven, Adam Nelson, Adam’s answer number 1, reflections. A lot can change in a little time, Adam writes, If you feel stuck, keep moving, and you won’t be for long. In nine months, I started a dream job at a great company. I’ve traveled a lot, including a trip to Berlin, where I inline skated a marathon with my wife. I had a back injury before Berlin and subsequently recovered, and we added a new puppy to our family.

On top of all that, Adam goes on, many stocks have made massive moves higher in less than a year. My biggest reflection, though, is to surround yourself with high quality people, like your guests from the 100th mailbag and his answer number 2, a prediction for 2025. Adam goes, a lot will change in one short year. Keep up the good work. Thanks for everything. I wish you and all the Fools a wonderful holiday season. Thank you, Adam Nelson, forever enshrined in the Rule Breakers Investing Hall of Fame for being the catalyst behind the day the world changed. The day we changed the rules of the Market Cap Game Show. All part of history now a history that cannot be rewritten.

How fortunate am I that as I walked on this Earth, Adam Nelson was there with me. On to Mike McMahon shop guy as he’s known on Twitter X and an invaluable contributor to Motley Fool Live. Mike says, I answer to question number 1, in February, I stated that my best investment was developing habits, emphasizing the importance of relationships, lifelong learning, and self improvement. Now, here we are 10 months later, Mike says, with over 1,600 miles walked, 750 hours of podcasts listened to, over 20 books read and more than 500 hours of Motley Fool work. I am smarter, happier, and richer as I enter my seventh decade on the planet, wow. Thanks, Mike and his answer number two, in 2025, I look forward to using AI to query all the material I’ve accumulated and stored in Readwise, Rome, and Twitter, which will supercharge the use of my second brain. Very well put and something I look forward to you acting on. In 2025.

Thank you, Mike McMahon and we close out Bestie Number 10 with the person I’ve known the longest among this group of Fools, and that would be Jason Newman, whom I first met at a Motley Fool book signing our first book in New York City back in the 1990s. Jason, your answer to question number 1, reflecting on 2024, being part of Rule Breaker Investing’s 100th episode remains a highlight for me, having listened to every episode before and since, my appreciation for this remarkable body of work is truly beyond words.

Thank you, David, and the entire team. Beyond the fun conversation and thoughtful insights shared, it’s the friendships formed and strengthened that I treasure most. We had Dave’s, Gardner, and Geck, Jasons, Moore, Trice, and Newman, Jim, Adam, and Mike. Many of us have stayed in touch, continuing to inspire and support one another. That sense of community is the greatest gift from the experience. Jason’s answer number 2, I’ll leave the wishing to dreamers and the predictions to pundits and instead share an interesting thought for 2025. Turning 50 this year prompts reflection for me and while I’ve witnessed incredible innovations from the Internet’s rise to reusable rockets, nothing has matched the transformative power of artificial intelligence. As an early adopter, Jason writes, I’ve seen my life change in ways I couldn’t have imagined, yet this future remains unevenly distributed. My thought it will be fascinating to watch this unfold, and I’ll remain both a champion and curious observer of this remarkable trend. Well, hearing that, Jason Newman, or, frankly, anyone would have heard every podcast we’ve done is just humbling, beautiful, unexpected.

But I guess that’s all part of the community encouragement cycle that became so evident in this Rule Breakers investing of 2024. Thank you to producer Dez Jones, who’s done a fine job for me most all of this year and just produced her first Besties no mean feat. Thank you again to every one of my special guests. Each of these men and women in one way or another is a hero of mine, maybe of yours too. It’s an honor to have them sit with us briefly here in Foolhalla near the end of another year. In fact, thank you for all of those who made 50 stellar weeks of this podcast for 2024 so far, happen. Thank you, most of all, dear listeners, much gratitude. I had such fun and learned a lot, and I hope you did, too, that is the Heart of the Besties, 2024, timely and time less, Fool on.